Update V: Paleos Must Defend the West, And That Means Israel Too

Conspiracy,IMMIGRATION,Iraq,Islam,Israel,Israeli-Palestinian Conflict,Multiculturalism,Neoconservatism,Old Right,Paleoconservatism,Palestinian Authority,South-Africa,The West,War

The excerpt is from my new VDARE.com column, Paleos Must Defend the West, And That Means Israel Too.”

“The fiery address this heroic European rightist [Geert Wilders] delivered in the Israeli capital got me thinking about the difference between the American and the European Old Right. Wilders is a hardcore man of the latter faction, for whom—in the derisive description of neoconservative Francis Fukuyama—”identity remains rooted in blood, soil and ancient shared memory”. It is this earthy instinct, I venture, that accounts for the understanding the European Right evinces for Israel’s life-and-death struggle.” …

“Frenchman Jean-Marie Le Pen of the National Front gives the American media a petit mal. Yet, despite all his idiosyncrasies, he identifies with Israel. Even the late Jörg Haider of the Alliance for the Future of Austria, who “exhibit[ed] every sign of anti-Semitism”—Hugh Fitzgerald’s estimation, not mine—was … “not quite so systematically vicious when it [came] to the state of Israel.” Vlaams Belang of Belgium is pro-Israel. Leader Filip Dewinter told a Jewish magazine: “One has to choose sides. Which side are you on in the ‘war on terror,’ “the side of western democracy and western civilization, with its Judeo-Christian roots, or the side of radical Islam?” …

“Most libertarian and conservative American traditionalists, also referred to as paleoconservatives and paleolibertarians, depart from their European counterparts. Like exotic political marsupials, local paleos have developed in geographic isolation and, hence, in a self-referential and self-reverential vacuum. While they have generally—and justly—supported western interests in conflicts such as in the former Yugoslavia, Chechnya, and Cyprus, paleos make an exception of Israel. In fact, some are more devoted to the Palestinian cause than most left-liberals.” …

Read the complete column, Paleos Must Defend the West…And That Means Israel Too,” on VDARE.com.

Update I (Jan 10): THE MCCRAE MEGILLAH. I’ve posted Gus Mccrae’s letter hereunder (write to him at mccraegus@gmail.com), as an example of everything that is rotten in the paleo faction. I can’t say for sure whether he is a paleoconservative, but neither can I vouch that paleos have denounced such creatures and their constructs.

Notwithstanding that Mccrae seems incapable of adhering to Barely a Blog’s posting policy (I guess he thinks the Jew woman’s property is his by birth right), there is nothing worth addressing in this venomous, irrational outpouring.

The Mccrae “thesis” in a nutshell is this: my Vdare.com article was disingenuous and deviant because I’m Jewish. Mccrae believes that as a Jew, I know only too well that Jews are responsible for the West’s woes, in general, and for its immolation by immigration. Qua Jew, I’m well aware that Jews practically control the world, because, being Jewish, I’m in on it. Therefore, my column was a cover and a foil for the shenanigans of my Tribe.

The Mccrae megillah is first, and worst of all, a non sequitur.

Update II (Jan 11): I thank those of you who’ve written well-reasoned and well-mannered comments. I’m still awaiting a comment by “prophet james.” It was deleted by mistake.

If you are going to indulge in conspiracy thinking vis-à-vis Jewish machinations, at the very least, mention the manifest subversion carried out by “moderate” Muslim organizations in this country, against this country. (“Exposing the Muslim Lobby”)

And remember, Jews are highly represented in all spheres. Jews have certainly been among the most individualistic, original, and entrepreneurial members of American society. Think of Google co-founder Sergey Brin, the eponymous mastermind of Dell Inc., casino mogul Sheldon Adelson, and many more.

As have Jews been among the best defenders of liberty: Think Ayn Rand, Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard, and Milton Friedman. (Was Frank Chodorov not Jewish? So many significant Jewish rightist, I can’t keep up.)

If Jews shrugged, you’d be without a quarter of your Nobel-Prize winners–cancer curers, scientists, etc. So get a grip, will you?

Reluctantly I return to Barely a Blog’s posting policy, which some rude, self-styled paleos seem to have difficulty with.

Don’t barge onto my private property demanding I explain myself to you, toots (you know who you are). My thoughts have been developed over years, and are archived on the mother site, ilanamercer.com, for your convenience.

Our posting policy states:

“The companion site, BarelyABlog.com, was established to generate debate about the essays on IlanaMercer.com, ILANA MERCER’S work. Readers participating on BarelyABlog.com are cordially asked to familiarize themselves with their host’s arguments. If readers prefer to showcase their ‘argumentation,’ or that of the scribes they favor and patronize, we suggest they pay for their own domain. This site is, after all, paid for by the host and her generous donors.”

The lax, rude individual who demanded I reproduce on the blog, for her edification, my thinking on foreign aid is directed to the two nifty search tools on ilanamercer.com, here, and here. I am sure even she can navigate them.

Update III: Elsewhere on this blog, JP Strauss writes the following:

Heck, if the IDF were my army, I would have invaded weeks ago. Flog the mobs, execute the terrorists and blow up the weapons caches. Israel has shown great levels of restraint up until now.Unfortunately, restraint sometimes leads to losing battles.

Allow me to introduce JP to BAB contributors: JP is an Afrikaner paleoconservative or paleolibertarian. Afrikaners have generally been highly conservative and very pro-Israel. While they’ve rightly been upset at their local, liberal Jews, Afrikaners seem to have been able to resolve the contradiction left-liberal Jews present without turning to support the PA and oppose Israel.

Leave aside the historical deceit paloes and radical leftists attach to Israel’s founding–mostly bogus of course. As something of a Randian, suffice it for me to see what Israel proper is like—skyscrapers, high-tech, high-fashion, friendly, peace-loving people, low crime rate (4 murders per 100,000; and that includes military deaths)—to support the right of the civilized society to hold all the bloody land in that benighted spot.

Update IV (Jan 12): I am not clear why a reader took my last updated comment as an endorsement (by this anti-interventionism) to spread democracy. I really can’t see the logic, especially in the context of my positions, stated, in “Thank You, Nancy Pelosi,” as follows:

“Of course, American interests in the Middle East are not to be conflated with Israeli interests. … Those of us who want the U.S. to stay solvent—and out of the affairs of others—recognize that sovereign nation-states that resist, not enable, our imperial impulses, are the best hindrance to hegemonic overreach. Patriots for a sane American foreign policy ought to encourage all America’s friends, Israel included, to push back and do what is in their national interest, not ours.”

When I say that I identify with Ayn Rand’s strong stand for civilization and against savagery, I mean this:

What do Palestinians do with land they get in return for the elusive peace? Destroy it. What did they do with the Israeli constructed hothouses in Gaza? Blew them up, and took to hothousing Hamasniks.

On what basis does the West, and left-liberal Israel, wish to grant Palestinians more land? Oh, for certain loony paleocons–libertarian and conservative–the notion is that the land is the Palestinians’ to trash. How libertine and licentious. Besides which, the land is disputed.

If you cannot keep your promise and abide by the contracts you sign to respect the negative rights of your neighbors, why do you deserve more land?

I’ll tell you what the logic behind this lunacy is. It is this: Palestinians are driven by forces beyond their control and in the control of Israel alone. Deprivation has caused their depravity. You all know what I think of the post hoc root-causes rot; you know what I think of the “idea” that crime is the fault of everyone but the perp!

Update V (Jan 13): The position of the Afrikaner people, in general, on Israel deserves mention. Afrikaners, “The Puritans of Africa,” are generally conservative. They are attached to their Christian faith even more so than Americans (who’ve imbibed a lot of New Age Christianity).
While Israel opposed apartheid, it was a true friend to South Africa during the years of sanctions and boycotts. Back then, it was South Africa and Israel against the world–and against the forces of liberalism intent on snuffing out civilized outposts at the tip of African and in the Middle East. The US had joined the Suicide of the West, often on the side of the commies, in supporting assorted “national liberation” movements.

In any event, older Afrikaners (and older Israelis) have not forgotten this epoch of their history.

22 thoughts on “Update V: Paleos Must Defend the West, And That Means Israel Too

  1. ProphetJames

    Ilana,
    As a Paleo-conservative, I’d like to respond to your op-ed “Paleos Must Defend the West…And That Means Israel Too”.

    American Paleo-Conservatives tend to be religious people who value traditional Judeo-Christian values and a strong America. We define the term “The West” to include Judeo-Christian traditions and values. Many Paleos are in favor of defending truely Western countries and values wherever they are threatened.

    However, in the Paleos point of view, many so-called Western countries in Europe and Israel have abandoned their Judeo-Christian (Western) heritage and have become secular-socialist countries. To Paleos, this governance model is doomed to failure. Paleos don’t see the point of defending a failed secular-socialist government from an Islamic one. While Paleos have much respect for conservative Jews and people of other faiths, the fact is Israel tends to be a secular-socialist state. [Have you noticed how socialist the US has become? Israel is as socialist as most European Third-Way economies. Why don’t you visit Israel, instead of castigating what you’ve not seen. Tel-Aviv, for example, is a fabulous bustling city with skyscrapers as magnificent as Dubai’s.–IM]

    Historically, Jewish Americans have tended to vote for the Democratic Party’s liberal agenda. The Democrats have taken the lead in driving Judeo-Christian values from American society. If pro-Israel supporters want Paleo support, why don’t Israel’s supporters in America support Paleos on the values issues? [Israelis have very little in common with local Jews. I have nothing in common with local Jews, having grown up in Israel. This is what you don’t get. Israelis are a different breed, nothing like diaspora Jews. Israeli conservatives do, however, greatly appreciate the evangelicals. I doubt they know of paleos.–IM]

    Also, Paleos want to see a strong America. However in the Paleo view, free trade policies have resulted in a severe weakening of America, the hollowing out of America’s industrial base and of the American economy as whole industries continue to be offshored to America’s adversaries. Because of the free-trade induced damage to America’s economy, America can no longer afford to be defending the world. If pro-Israel supporters want Paleo support, why don’t they support Paleos and America’s best interests on the trade issues? [I’m against any foreign aid, ever. I was speaking merely of a philosophical consistency.–IM]

    Libertarians and Neocons tend to be inconsistent on their foreign policies. They advocate economic policies that disadvantage America and also advocate perpetual cuts in the size of government while at the same time believing the myth that an America, using a failed economic model, can continue to be policeman of the world. Libertarians and Neocons should re-think their model.

    ProphetJames

  2. Gus Mccrae

    “If paleos of the conservative and libertarian stripe are to be consistent in defending what Wilders calls “who we are and where we come from”, they will have to include Israel in their philosophical defense of the West. ”

    Ilana,

    I must say that I found your recent column on http://www.vdare.com to one of the most amazing examples of gall and chutzpah that I’ve ever seen coming from a member of your tribe, and I’ve seen a substantial number of such displays – ever since I began my research into the Jewish sponsored 1965 Immigration legislation which officially launched the Jewish Genocide of the the White European race here in America.

    Take this amazing pile of bull manure, quoted from your column:

    “A defense of the West against the onslaught of Islam and Third-World immigration, the kind Wilders preaches and practices, is incoherent absent a recognition that this has been Israel’s battle from its inception; that Israel is of the West; that in Israel—foibles and frailties notwithstanding—the West has reclaimed a small spot of sanity in a sea of savagery, where enlightened western law prevails, and where Christians and Jews and their holy places are safe. (Muslims are always secure in western societies, Arab-Israelis too.) ”

    Since you appear to be either factually challenged, or deliberately devious – let’s review the truth about why the ‘West’ (European dominant nations, world-wide) are all being destroyed by massive third world invasions, okay? Ready? This has been happening as a deliberate and pre-meditated consequence of the liberalization of the immigration laws of all of these respective European dominant nations and your people, meaning Jews – have played a critical and dominant role in those immigration law revisions. I’ll admit that these Jews did, and still have, many race traitorous slabs of despicable European Anglo-Saxon human garbage who have allowed their own lust for power and for monetary advantage persuade them into joining in with your Jewish tribe to help engineer the genocide of their own people. This truth is clearly verifiable.

    But, there is no question that the #1 objective of Jews has been the genocide and extermination of the White Race on planet Earth. And, for the white politicians – the Kennedy’s,
    the Clinton’s, the vile and demonic Bush Family – LBJ, etc., these slabs of rat excrement were helping this genocide along because these filthy creatures are greed motivated,
    which is a particularly unsavory and shameful characteristic of far too many men and women of European descent. Being white myself, I am very disgusted at members of my own race who fit this profile.

    This is not an arguable point. It is fact. And, to further illustrate this point: Jewish media control equates to a 24/7 promotion of race mixing between white females and black males, or white males and Asian females, etc, etc, etc. Jewish media also hurls the vilest of criticism towards any white individual who professes to have pride in their race and expresses concern about the survival of white, Western, European civilization. This treatment is exclusively thrown at whites and only at whites – and all other ethnic groups are cheered when they express ethnic pride and solidarity. This proves beyond the shadow a doubt that Jews wish to genocide the white race off
    the face of the planet. Race mixing spells death for a people who’s numbers have shrunk from 30-35% of the world’s population in 1900 to barely 8-10% today. And anybody, including Ilana Mercer, who says otherwise needs to go back and take 8th Grade math class over again – and this time, stay awake and pay attention.

    Israel, to sum up, is not and has never been a ‘Western’ nation. Israel is and always has been, a parasite nation and the world’s #1 terrorist nation.

    If any nation on this earth deserves to be nuked, it’s that stinkhole state of Israel. Oh, and if you think otherwise – here is a video that you need to watch:

    http://www.911missinglinks.com

    Have a nice day, Ilana.

    P.S. Regarding the recent ‘interview’ of Peter Brimelow, of Vdare.com fame and fortune – by this creature named Thomas Hartman – this was posted as mp3 download on vdare recently. Give that show a listen, Ilana. Notice how Hartman pushes the Marcuse, Lukacs, Gramsci flavored, Frankfurt School of Cultural Marxism poison – the sick and sinister baloney about there being ‘no such thing as race’, or that ‘race is a social construct’, blah, blah, blah. Brimelow did a poor job of handling that Frankfurt school lying crap, because Hartman handed him a knife that Brimelow should have castrated him with. In essence, Hartman had the Hebrew gall to pointedly insinuate that the white race did not even ‘exist’.
    But, do not take my word for it – get the audio and listen to it yourself, Ilana. BTW: Is Thomas Hartman Jewish? If not, he might as well be – because his brain and opinions are pure anti-white Hebrew hate filled manure.

  3. Max

    Ilana,
    Why are you allowing lunatics to post on your site? I’m sorry I wasted my time reading this insane drivel.

  4. Max

    Just to be clear, I’m referring only to the previous post by one Gus McCrae.

    [Your point is well taken; I do not usually allow this on BAB, a moderated forum. But sometimes, one has to expose the magnitude of the problem by showcasing it.–IM]

  5. Stan

    Ilana:

    While your article is excellent, I don’t see the purpose in appealing, however reasonably, to a faction that celebrates the neo-Nazi propagandist Kevin MacDonald and publishes plenty of openly anti-Semitic content. Don’t be surprised when most of the responses will come down to justifying blanket opposition to Israel as “revenge” for perceived wrongs committed by Jews, whether all or some.

    The premise that it is the Jews themselves who are primarily responsible for any particular instance of explicitly anti-Jewish behavior should always be rejected categorically. Otherwise, you are unwittingly serving the purposes of the anti-Semites.

  6. David Tatosian

    -Gus Mccrae-
    By way of introduction; I am a second generation American of Sicilian Irish descent with an Armenian surname. I was raised a Christian.
    That said…
    There are a couple of problems with basing an ideology, belief system or a world view on the assumption that the Jews have essentially played a critical and dominant role in what amounts to the destruction of Western civilization and the white race.
    First, it grants gargantuan powers to the Jewish minority while simultaneously pronouncing western civilization/the white race to be little more than a mindless rabble easily manipulated and/or frightened into supporting legislation and cultural programs designed to eliminate its very existence.
    (McRae believes Jewish influence was powerful enough to impose its will on the vast majorities of non-Jew/white legislators who passed Hart-Celler. Okay. But what does that tell us about those non-Jew legislators and their silent constituencies? Anything? Everything?)
    Secondly, and more to the point; the “Jew as the sum total of all evil” doctrine puts its followers (for whatever misplaced reasons) in the contemptible position of supporting the Islamic jihad.
    Is that the intent?
    Clearly McRae and his ilk don’t bother themselves with Islam’s barbaric commitment to convert, suppress or exterminate non-Muslims everywhere, a fact that can be readily understood by reading Islam’s history, taking a look at any of the hadiths or observing events in Islamic regimes throughout the world. Had the McRae’s done so they would have come to the inescapable conclusion that the only sin committed by Israel is daring to live in a Muslim region without being Muslims. Period.
    Frankly, I find this lack of intellectual curiosity (or worse) to be similar to that displayed by liberals and African/Hispanic/Muslim supremacists here in the United States.
    Finally; I have participated in a fair number of anti-illegal alien rallies, protests and demonstrations over the years. (And found it curious that nearly all such activity stopped during this past election cycle.) I have been surrounded; I have grappled, pushed and shoved on those occasions.
    But the anti-illegal alien rallies were Sunday school next to these pro hamas rallies.
    There is a hatred fueled by the Islamic ideology that encourages these pro-Palestinians (bussed in from Islamic community centers miles from the site) to attack women, old men or whoever else they can get their hands on.
    Islam is the enemy. Not the American Jews.
    Does MCCRAE think the jihadis aren’t using his contempt of Jews to help undermine and ultimately destroy my culture, nation and civilization?
    That may or may not be MCCRAE’s intent, but the result is ultimately the same.
    One hopes the MCCRAEs will reconsider their position.
    But one carries on nonetheless.
    Stay Strong.

  7. Van Wijk

    Ilana,

    I appreciate you posting Mr. McCrae’s screed in order to illustrate that anti-Semitism is alive and well in the paleocon movement. That being said, I hope that there is never another need to post such garbage and that future comments from McCrae and his ilk can be left to Stormfront and the like. VW

  8. Barbara Grant

    I think it’s rather insulting to portray Ilana, as Mr. McRae has done, as little more than a frontwoman/propaganda mouthpiece for a group (“your people,” “your Jewish tribe”) rather than as the individualist writer she consistently shows herself to be. If one does _any_ reading of her articles on the site one will see the individualist who has denounced both the leftism of American Jews and the policies of the Israeli government when she disagrees with them. These obvious facts are absent in Mr. McRae’s screed. Isn’t a Jewish writer allowed to be an individualist in the opinions she states, or must she always be perceived as a tool used for enhancing, however subtly, a wider conspiracy?

    I doubt whether Ilana received “the memo” calling upon Jews to employ various means, typically nefarious and propagandist, to destroy Western civilization; coming from a Jewish background, I didn’t, either.

  9. Myron Pauli

    FIRST: Anti-Semitism 101: (1) Group XXX (neocons/commies/bankers/leftists/lawyers/football-team -owners/…) is an evil group. (2) Well known and vocal Jews 1…. N (Kristol/Marx/Rothschild/Soros/Dershowitz/Daniel Snyder/…) are prominent leaders in evil group XXX. (3) Hence, evil group XXX is part of the IJC (International Jewish Conspiracy) since all Jews think alike as members of the tribe. (4) Israel alias the Zionist Entity is the Headquarters of the IJC and full of like-thinking Jewish conspirators…. What is truly remarkable is one hold nearly any point of view (left, right, secular, religious) and subscribe to Anti-Semitism since there are inevitably “prominent” Jews who espouse the opposite (and evil) viewpoint. // SECOND: What is remarkable about some on the right is that many who think it was fine for America to firebomb Dresden and nuke Hiroshima and napalm Vietnam are outraged when Israel responds to 7000 “largely ineffective” rockets by having to do street-by-street clearing out of mosques and causing “disproportionate” enemy casualties in the hundreds which is then elevated into “genocide” and “Nazi equivalents” // THIRD: Do you read Paul Craig Roberts of VDARE.com, who is quite virulent against Israel beyond what I would call “neutrality”.

  10. Gerry T. Neal

    Mrs. Mercer,

    I read your latest article at VDare on Friday with much interest. Your point about consistency is a very cogent one. You ask why American paleoconservatives who speak out in defense of Western communities, culture, and civilization against attacks from non-Western (primarily Muslim) groups elsewhere in the world are so critical of Israel and so supportive of the Palestinians. I believe this is a product of a specific historical situation. Pat Buchanan, Charley Reese, and Joe Sobran were all strong supporters of Israel at one time. They reversed their position late in the 80’s when the question of what a post-Cold War American foreign policy should look like arose. Buchanan, Sobran, and Reese wished to restore classical republicanism in America and so they believed that after the Cold War America should withdraw honorably from “entangling alliances” and go back to an “America First” policy. At that time Israeli-Arab hostilities were renewed when the first Intifada broke out. These American patriots, already angry at Israel over the Pollard affair which occurred around the same time, pointed to America’s relationship to Israel as a classic example of the kind of entangling alliance George Washington talked about. Neoconservatives, and other leftists, responded with a knee-jerk accusation of anti-Semitism. That turned opposition to America’s entangling alliance with Israel, into a manner of honor for these men.

    [I’ve heard that thin reed of an excuse. It explains absolutely nothing–and certainly doesn’t account for the extreme, radical leftist, hate-filled, anti-civilization positions taken by these men. I too vocally oppose unwarranted interventionism. In my essay I spoke to philosophical consistency; nothing more. Philosophical consistency ought to transcend personal peeves. How would you excuse Joe Sobran’s holocaust denial? The big, bad neocons drove him to abandon history and embrace pseudo-history?l Puleeze.–IM]

  11. noainc

    America must support Israel. The Hamas are a terrorist group which uses Arab civilians as shields to commit terrorism against both Arab and Jewish Israeli civilians.
    If Gaza is so poor, why is all the aid they are given used to purchase arms to further violence? The surrounding Arab countries do not do anything constructive for but instead use the Palestinians to further their own political agendas.
    Groups like Hamas could not take control of Gaza or the West Bank without the complicity of European nations and Arab nations.
    I do not like to see and hear of civilians being killed and taken advantage of by Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Taliban, nor caught in the crossfire when these terrorists are targeted.
    But Israel and any other nation that fights terrorism cannot allow the use of civilians to protect terrorists.
    The media in America reports the coverage with terms like proportional force, and every complaint possible against Israel.
    Israel must use overwhelming deadly force to maximize Hamas casualties and minimize Israeli military and civilian casualties.
    It is unbelievable that in America people can protest to support Muslim terrorism. That is the equivalent of having protesters advocating against America for civilian deaths during air raids against German and Japanese cities during WWII.
    We in the west are involved in a defensive war for survival against a resurgent invasion from an expanding and radical Islamic world.
    Radical, expansionist Islam must be defeated.

  12. Phil Manger

    Ilana,
    I believe Jews have a right to be in Israel and that they have a right to defend their presence there. They have a right to be there because Jews have lived there continuously for over 3,000 years. That’s twice as long as the English have been in England and even a few centuries longer than the Romans have been in Rome. If a people don’t have a right to live where they have been for the last 3,000 years, where do they have a right to live?

    Reasonable people can disagree about the policies of Israel’s government. But on these two points — Israel’s right to exist and its right to defend its existence — there can be no reasonable disagreement.

  13. Myron Pauli

    I disagree with NOAINC about “America must support Israel”. America’s duty is to support America and Israel’s duty is to support Israel. See, for example, John Quincy Adams famous speech on foreign policy:
    http://www.fff.org/freedom/1001e.asp

    “Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her (America’s) heart, her benedictions and her prayers be.

    But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy.

    She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.

    She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

    She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example.

    She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of individual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom.”

    Hence Ilana and I oppose “foreign aid” to Israel and other similar “support”. Most countries “helped” by America (South Vietnam) typically wound up being reduced to pathetic puppet regimes.

  14. PierreLegrand

    hehe…Paleos need to get a grip on reality. Right now America is being destroyed from within by greedy politicians trying to get as rich as possible before the collapse and from without by a bunch of 7th century lunatics…both groups are being aided by the left. After reading Gus’s lunatic rant we should add some on the far right.

    Which means that we are in a target rich enviroment. When the collapse comes the streets will get ugly very quickly.

    Targets in order of importance.
    1. 7th Century Lunatic Religion
    2. Communists/Socialists/Greenies
    3. Politicians who support the first two groups.
    4. Those who appease the first 3 groups.

    None of these groups can be destroyed by conventional weapons…ideas do not bleed. We need to fight them tooth and nail every time someone defending those groups pops up. If we don’t fight them with words then one day all of us will be fighting them with bullets.

  15. Nebojsa

    I for one see a striking parallel between the way the current situation in Gaza is being described and the outcry against “Serbian aggression” and “ethnic cleansing” and “genocide” in the 1990s. Once again, Muslims can’t be anything other than innocent, defenseless victims, never mind their refusal to acknowledge their enemies having a right to life, let alone legitimate claims or interests.
    When the invasion of Iraq began in 2003, I was irritated that some of the loudest advocates of destroying the Serbs had overnight reinvented themselves as peaceniks. It wasn’t imperialism itself they objected to, it was the target thereof (bombs good when they kill Serbs, bad when they kill Muslims). So today we have the incongruous situation where those who object to the dismemberment of Serbia approve of the dismemberment of Israel, and don’t realize the logical disconnect in their position.

    [This is a very powerful point, coming, as it does, from a Serbian writer–and witness.–IM]

  16. Jeff Albertson

    [Another example of what has come to typify the paleo thinking. I blanked out the cussing.–IM]

    Have you noticed how socialist the U.S. has become?

    “The Jews” are among many who have found a way to exploit a fatal security flaw in the U.S. Constitution that has resulted in the death of our Republic and the growth of the One World State.(For the record, I don’t blame the Zionists for taking advantage of our government, I blame our government).

    This project (Imperialism) must fail, will fail. Since we are evidently unable to re-establish the Republic we can only pray for the destruction of the Empire by the barbarians. It’s unfortunate that Israel has chosen to be the tip of the spear while counting on the support of fat f_gs like Hagee and his ilk, traitors to their own God and Country, while reaffirming that might makes right and giving no quarter to those they conquer. Reap the whirlwind, or not, but don’t expect loyalty from slaves. If I were free to choose, I might support Israel, since I’m not, it’s just Tutsis v Hutus to me.

  17. Barbara Grant

    While I agree entirely with Phil Manger’s argument, above, that Israel has both a right to the land and the right to defend it, I think it’s likely that some paleos (along with most leftists) may not agree with either point. In other words, if Israelis are merely usurpers, founding a country on someone else’s land, their right to defend it is as thin as their right to possess it.

    I think it’s possible that some paleos who would not consider themselves Jew-haters deplore Israel’s response to the current crisis because they place constraints (such as pre-1967 borders) on the territory they consider legitimate for Israel. Why not ask paleos to spell out exactly where they believe Israel’s territorial legitimacy lies? That way, you know (partially) the initial conditions from which some paleos draw their conclusions. However, I also believe that theology is relevant to the situation, and I note that those condemning Israel’s current actions vis-à-vis Gaza do not come from the evangelical Christian community, which has long held that Israel is not only a legitimate state, but has the God-given right to self-defense.

  18. Dok Glansbeek

    [Yet another example of the paraded ignorance I’ve come to expect. The syntactical and grammatical tics from one so confident are hard to ignore. Hence the “sic” all over the place.–IM]:

    To go into detail is to [sic] much work but,
    1 Afrikaners are not pro-Israel [The National Party sure was. South Africa and Israel were as tight as thieves. Israel even honored Vorster, the architect of apartheid. He “laid the ground for a collaboration that transformed the Israel-South Africa axis into a leading weapons developer and a force in the international arms trade”.]
    2.Palestinians of old were very learned people,mor [sic] so than the jews at that time
    3.The Israelis have no right to be in Palestine. [Assertion, not argument]
    4.Geert Wilders(I like him) is this time an opportunist seeking jewish votes in the Netherlands.
    5.Hamas is not a terrorist group(only in the eyes of the West,they were duly elected.(Call them Freedom fighters with a purpose)
    7. Would you call the ANC terrorists. [You bet I would—and do]
    8. I can go on and on and on [Not on this forum you don’t.]

  19. Steven

    Ilana,

    I recently e-mailed you regarding the comments of Buchanan, Ron Paul and the Vatican on Israel and Muslim-Occupied Gaza.

    Jews have to face the fact that Muslims (Arab and non-Arab alike; along with Jew-haters around the world) will never accept *Israel* as a fact in the ME. The sooner we Jews accept *that fact* the better off we will be, because we will finally be honest with ourselves as to who the enemy are.

    I defy the “paleo-conservatives” to have the guts to come right out and state that their opposition to Israeli actions has nothing to do with “international law” but everything to do with visceral Jew-hatred that coarses through their veins and blood. Their real thought is “Israel delenda est.” That includes the above mentioned guilty parties. I have more respect for Hamas and Hizbullah because at least they state that they are out to kill *all* Jews. Not like Buchanan, Paul, and Co. who hide behind “anti-Zionism.”

  20. political marsupial

    …There comes a time when “enough is enough.”

    …Israel finally said (and did) so…

    …”Get off my lawn…”

    Szasz

  21. H Engelbrecht

    Being an Afrikaner I wish to comment on two of Dok Glansbeek’s comments above.

    The first is his statement that Afrikaners are not pro-Israel. This could not be further from the truth. Israel was one of South Africa’s few “friends” during the apartheid years. Further, and here I speak of my own view, and I believe it to be the view of 90% of the Afrikaners, as a Christian I have the highest regard for Israeli’s, for being God’s “chosen people”.

    Perhaps an indicator of “old South Africa’s” stance on Israel is the fact that we learnt some of Israel’s history at school level, I recall learning about Golda Meir, Ben Gurion (forgive my spelling) and the Six Day War.

    History of other countries did not nearly receive the same prominence. It is understandable that there may have been resentment, even hatred of certain Jews like Helen Suzman for her anti-Afrikaner views, but this was not a general resentment of all Israeli’s (or Jews). It was her views that were offensive, not the fact that she was Jewish.

    Secondly, I do not care what cause you are fighting for (and I’m not implying that Hamas has a just cause), if you target civilians you are nothing more than a common terrorist. I have often heard people saying “one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter”. That is nothing but pc bs. The way you fight is one of the factors determining if you are a terrorist or not.

  22. Mark Humphrey

    It is true that the Islamic worldview is imperial, violent, and antagonistic to reason and individual liberty. It is true that even given serious defects, Western civilization is vastly superior to the wretched and primitive collectivism of Muslims. It is true that many libertarians treat Israel as the paragon of wickedness, while making light of Palestinian aggression. It is true that Israel is a comparative outpost of civilization in a dangerous part of the world. It is true that rational moral values that even today inhere in Western civilization ought to be defended against the imperial Islamic onslaught of religious violence.

    But none of the above implies that citizens of Europe or the United States ought to be pressed into service, by taxes or other coercive measures, to wage military operations in defense of Israeli territory. (This is a statement with which Ilana might agree.)

    More basically, there is no moral duty for anyone to fight to defend “Western Civilization” and the “Judeo-Christian heritage”, as interpreted by Geert Wilders or anyone else, because such is a “package deal”–an amalgam of good and bad. Although the rational insights and values of the West arose from a culture that was partly influenced by religion, those ideas were not essentially the product of religious thinking—Christian or Jewish. They were the product of reason.

    Religion is inescapably antagonistic to reason, whatever the politics of pastor or rabbi, because the religious uphold faith as the only proper route to knowledge about ultimate issues. But this is an irrational worldview unworthy of defense. The worldview of reason sees the universe as a natural order, void of contradiction, understandable by man’s proper exercise of thinking and investigating.

    An example of this “package deal” is the problem of the onslaught of Islamic immigration into Holland and the rest of Europe. Secular Post Moderns defend this immigration in the name of altruism and the larger social welfare—both false moral values of Christianity (and I am willing to bet, of Judaism). In a free society, dedicated to defending private property and private lives, the mass immigration of violent, disgruntled, mooching aliens would never happen.

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